Chapter 3: Peregrine Falcon Closures in Southern Arizona

After the dust had settled following the Melinda Fisher e-mail which outlines the plan to close 35 areas in the Coronado National Forest, it is time to determine what the closures will be in 2009. As far as I know, at this point in time (1/18/2009), the closures for 2009 have not been completely determined.

The documentation in this web page is mainly the e-mail exchange between myself the Forest Service - specifically Tom Skinner and Melinda Fisher.

December 12, 2008

My e-mail to Tom Skinner (Forest Service):

Tom,

I was wondering where things stand in regards to the Peregrine Falcon closures for 2009. Are you planning to have a meeting between the biologists and representatives of the climbing community?

If you are planning to have a meeting, would you please invite James DeRoussel to the meeting instead of me. He has is an administrator on the Mountain Project website, has been a representative for the access fund and he was the leader of the Tucson Climber's Association. His e-mail address is:

__________@_____.com

Also, please keep John Hayes informed of what is going on.

Thanks, Bob

December 18, 2008

Tom Skinner (Forest Service) e-mail to me:

Thanks for your interest, Bob, and we would be glad to include James in any meeting(s). There was no follow-up by Josh in pursuing the change (which looked like an extension to other sites) of the closure order that we saw, so believe other work items took priority and the current situation continues.

But the need to discuss the issues continues, as we try to find a balance between the protection of nesting birds and providing for recreational climbing - and recognize that we owe a lot of thanks to climbers for providing us information about falcons, and other wildlife, that we otherwise would never hear about.

I'm headed for retirement this next month, but will talk with Larry Jones (currently Assistant Wildlife Program Manager) and Melinda Fisher (who will be moving soon to the Sierra Vista Ranger District), and include them in this email exchange.

My response to Tom Skinner's (Forest Service) e-mail:

Tom,

I am a little unclear on your e-mail. Where do we stand with closures for 2009? Are you saying that they the same as last year (as I think you e-mail infers) or have they been expanded to the 35 areas that were listed in Melinda's e-mail?

Also, congratulations on you upcoming retirement.

Thanks,

-Bob

Tom Skinner's (Forest Service) reply to my e-mail:

The same as last year. No change. No expansion to the other areas. But the closure order issue does need to be reviewed and, as that is done, we need to make sure communication with you continues, thanks.

Another e-mail to Tom Skinner (Forest Service):

Tom,

One more thing. In Melinda's original e-mail with the list of 35 closures, Cochise dome in the Dragoon's (stronghold) was not on the list. Can we get Cochise dome open in 2009? It has the popular route "What's my line" and it would be good if we can get it open.

Thanks, Bob

December 22 , 2008

Tom Skinner's (Forest Service) reply to my e-mail:

Bob, in the past, each year about now, or in early January, we usually have a meeting with climbers, AZ G&F/F&WS to discuss/review the Rockfellow Dome closure and other issues. Since i'll be gone in two weeks, it's no longer my call, so i'm no help - i'll pass your message along here - as that's what departing bureaucrats do...

December 29 , 2008

Another e-mail to Tom Skinner (Forest Service):

Tom,

Have you seen any copies of the 2006 U.S. Falcon Survey results? I sent Robert Mesta an e-mail asking if he could send me a copy of the them but I haven't heard anything back from him. Maybe he is on vacation - or maybe he doesn't take to snoopy climbers... Do you know if the 2006 U.S. Falcon Survey results are available?

Thanks, Bob

I believe that the 2006 U.S. Falcon Survey results are important because I think that the survey will show that the Peregrine Falcon populations in the U.S. are above their historical levels. My personal opinion is that if this is case, then there is no need for closures - the Peregrine Falcon population is healthy.

December 30 , 2008

Tom Skinner's (Forest Service) reply to my e-mail:

Hmmm. Good question. I don't recall seeing any word about them being available - they should be and should be available to all ("snoopy climbers" or not). I just checked our files to see if we received them (sometimes items come in that i don't see) but they were not there. I'll send a message.

January 3, 2009

Tom Skinner has retired. My questions were now directed at Melinda Fisher of the Forest Service. I wanted to check with her and see if it was O.K. to publish the list of 35 closures that she proposed in September 2008:

Melinda,

January 5 , 2009

Melinda Fisher's (Forest Service) response to my e-mail:

Bob,

This information is not necessary to share with the climbing community at this point. There is no closure order in effect for the additional sites. Only the following sites have closure orders: routes 3,4,5,6,7,8, and 9 on Panorama Wall at Bear Canyon, all of Barnum Rock, all of Wheeler Wall near San Pedro Overlook, all of Raven Rock and Fortress, all of Rappel Rock and the area immediately adjacent, and Rockafellow Dome with routes to be determined based on Peregrine monitoring this year. These are the same as the last several years.

I don't foresee any new closures going into effect until after the breeding season or maybe even into next year. Right now we are in the transition stage with the recent retirement of Tom Skinner. We don't want to create major changes in the wildlife program until we have a new Program Manager. Right now we do not have any time frame for when this might be.

If you have any questions about any of the peregrine closures or future closures please contact Josh Taiz with the Catalina District. He is the lead on this project. I am strictly helping him out to gather information. He is the one who will ultimately make the decision that will go to the Forest Supervisor to be signed off.

My e-mail back to Melinda Fisher (Forest Service)

Melinda,

Is Cochise Dome open? It was closed last year but has not shown up on any lists for this year.

Thanks, Bob

Melinda Fisher's (Forest Service) response to my e-mail:

I have looked through all of our closure order records and I have not found any records for Cochise Dome. I have asked around and no one is familiar with the closure. Is there another name that it might go by? The locations I gave you in the last e-mail are all of the closure orders that we have signed and in effect.

Melinda

My e-mail back to Melinda Fisher (Forest Service)

Melinda,

Here is the closure order that I have for the Stronghold. I got it from Tom last year:

http://www.climbaz.com/features/closures/stronghold_2008.html

Thanks, Bob

Melinda Fisher's (Forest Service) reply:

I spoke with the district directly and the district ranger informed me that they are currently in the process of redoing the Rockfellow Dome closure order, which includes the Cochise Dome area. They will look at monitoring data and determine what areas need to be protected this year. I cannot say when this order will come out. I am not sure if it will be an amendment to the last order or if it will be a new order.

The closure order that you sent me, it turns out, was never sent to the Supervisor's Office and placed in our master record book. Tom has a copy but stashed in files that I didn't know about.

Sorry if this has caused any confusion. I will make sure to give your name and e-mail address to the Douglas District so that you are sent a copy of the new order.

Melinda

February 21 , 2009

My e-mail to Melinda Fisher and Larry Jones of the Forest Service (Note that Larry Jones is Tom Skinner's temporary replacement).

Larry/Melinda,

I have posted what I believe to be accurate information on the Peregrine Falcon closures at:

http://www.climbaz.com/features/closures/closures.html

Based on the e-mail from Melinda, I do not believe the information on Cochise Stronghold / Rockfellow Dome is correct. Would you send me the information on the Cochise Stronghold closures? Specifically, when do the closures start and what areas are closed.

Thanks, Bob

February 23 , 2009

Larry Jone's (Forest Service) response to my e-mail:

My return e-mail to Larry Jones (Forest Service):

February 25 , 2009

Larry Jone's (Forest Service) response to my e-mail:

March 28, 2009 Update

March 8, 2009

Larry,

I was wondering if you were making any progress as far as sending me a copy of the closure order for the Cochise Stronghold. Although the information in the e-mail below is good (closures start on Feb. 15) it does not contain any information about what is closed and what the penalties are. Specifically, is Cochise Dome or the Waterfall domes closed or is it only the Rockfellow domes. Is the Rockfellow park closed or just the dome complex? Anyway, I would still appreciate a copy of the Stronghold Closure orders so that I can understand exactly what is closed as so that I can post them on my website.

Thanks, Bob

March 9, 2009

Hi, Bob--

We'll be reviewing our closure orders next Monday, so that would be a good time for me to get them pdf'ed to send out. Thanks for your patience!

Larry Jones

Tuesday, March 17, 2009

Larry,

Did you get the closure orders reviewed yesterday? Hopefully, you will be able to send out the PDFs for the closure orders today (or very soon).

I might point out that it is very difficult to have effective closures for Peregrine Falcons if nobody knows what the closures are.

Thanks, Bob

Bob--I was caught in a time warp...our meeting I mentioned is for the coming Monday, but I found a closure order dated 3/18/2002, and I will check with Cheri to make sure it is valid. I put a copy of the order to be pdf'ed in Janet Jones' inbox....I know she is gone today, but should be here tomorrow. When pdf'ed and validated, I'll send you a copy.

Larry Jones

March 18, 2009

Bob--

Here is the closure order that I found in our official files, with a map that was attached. I'll let you know if I hear of anything more recent...but I looked through the closure order log and this was the only entry for that area.

Larry Jones

Rockfellow Dome closure_05-189.pdf

March 19, 2009

Larry,

Thanks for sending the PDF of the Rockfellow Dome Closure order. There is a lot of confusion on my part. Last year, Tom Skinner sent me this document, saying it was the closure order for Cochise Stronghold:

http://www.climbaz.com/features/closures/stronghold_2008.html [Note that this webpage was updated on 3/27/2009]

Note that there are many differences between Tom's closure order and the closure order you sent. Mainly, Tom's order has the closures starting on March 1 rather than February 15th. Also, Tom's order is must less restrictive - only Cochise Dome and Rockfellow domes are closed, not the entire Rockfellow park.

Tom's closure order was based upon ongoing discussions between climbers and the forest service after 2002 (when the closure order you sent was signed). What happened with the agreements between the forest service and the climbing community? Was the closure order never updated? What can we do to get the closure order for the Stronghold updated to reflect recent agreements between the climbing community and the Forest Service?

Thanks, Bob

Bob--

I see why you are confused. I'll bring the Forest Supervisor and District folks into this to get resolution. I did not find this document in our closure order files here at the Supervisor's Office, so it must reside at the district. I know Tom dealt with your group quite a bit, but he didn't share the info with me, so I'm starting from scratch. Sorry for the mess, but I'm on it now!

Larry Jones

Larry,

I do not believe that closure order 05-189 was ever updated. I think there were agreements between the climbers and the Forest Service and Tom's document summarizes those agreements, but I don't think he (or the Forest Service) took the agreements to the Forest Supervisor and had them signed off and made into official closure orders.

Note that I have posted Tom's closure order amendment for over a year and all of the climbers believe that Tom's closure order is the official closure order. His closure order amendment reflects the agreements between climber and the Forest Service as the climbing community understands it. We need to get the official closure order updated with Tom's amendment.

Thanks, Bob

Bob--

I've sent out both versions to the Forest Supervisor, District Ranger, District Biologist, and Law Enforcement, and asked that the persons with authority let me know ASAP about which is the legally binding document, so I expect the end is near. And if it is not the one that is signed by Doug Hardy in 2006 (the "Tom" version), we will discuss this Monday at our Biologists' Leadership Team meeting.

Larry Jones

March 23, 2009

Larry,

One more thing. The penalty on the closure order (05-189) for the Cochise Stronghold also appears to be excessive. It is $5000 for an individual. On all of the Mt. Lemmon closures, it is $500. I do not understand why it would be 10 times greater in the stronghold.

- Bob

March 25, 2009

Hi Bob...I was in meetings or field for a couple of days, but we discussed this and other closure orders and think we have a resolution for this one. I need to involve the person with the proper authority (Forest Supervisor), so I'll get back to you soon. Thanks again for your patience.

Larry Jones

Thanks for the update Larry. Hopefully the resolution will be good for everyone involved...

Thanks, Bob

April 19, 2009 Update

March 30, 2009

Hi, Bob. Our Forest Supervisor was gone most of last week, so she hasn't had a chance to take any action on the Rockfellow Dome closure order. I will be gone two weeks, starting this morning, and if we hear something more, I've asked Rick Gerhart (who will be our Wildlife, Fish, and Rare Plants program manager 10 May) to send you the latest info. If we don't hear anything this week, he will be at the same meeting I am at next week, so we would have to wait until we get back. Thanks again for your patience!

Larry Jones

March 30, 2009

Thanks for the update Larry. I appreciate all that you are doing...

- Bob

April 14, 2009

Bob--

Find attached a letter signed from the Forest Supervisor of the Coronado National Forest about the Closure Order number 05-189. The letter should explain the situation well. Let me know if you have any questions. I am also attaching the two documents referenced in the letter (I know you have seen them before). Again, sorry for the long delay. And thanks for your interest and patience!

Larry Jones

Forest Supervisor Letter for Closure Order 05-189.pdf

closure 05-189 addendum.pdf

closure 05-189.pdf

April 15, 2009

Larry,

This is good news.

In the memorandum, it says that #05-189 will be revised. Do you have any idea how long this will take. I am somewhat concerned that things will be left as they are and will soon be forgotten (as has happened in the past) - with the net result being that #05-189 doesn't get revised.

Also, the $5000 fine in #05-189 is excessive. The fine on the Mt. Lemmon closures is $500 and it would be good if we could make the fine on the revised closure order the same as the Mt. Lemmon closure orders.

Anyway, thanks for following up on the closure orders and making progress on getting #05-189 updated.

- Bob

Bob--

Thanks for the reply. In a nutshell, we are revisiting and revising all of our Closure Orders (as needed), and are looking at needs for new ones, as well as terminations of Closure Orders where there are no longer needs. There are new regs on the books that tell us how we are to proceed with them. As far as I can tell, this is likely to be on our Program of Work next fiscal year (October through September), but that is not my call...so, I expect we will deal with them on a case-by-case basis, probably based on some sort of prioritization (I would think 05-189 is high priority). Having said that, I don't think I can give you a timeline...we all have lots on our platters, but that includes closure orders, as well as getting them pdf'ed and put onto our website. And thanks for the info on the fine...I wasn't aware, but we should take that into consideration during the revision process.

Larry Jones

Bob--

See below from our law enforcement person...I'm glad we have someone who knows this stuff...law enforcement isn't my bailywick! But this should be good news to you...and only 1% of the maximum fine you were thinking!

Larry Jones

Forwarded e-mail from Cheri Bowen:

FYI- The $5000 fine that is being referred to in the Order is the maximum penalty that can be assessed, and/or 6 months is jail. This is standard for all misdemeanor violations. The "bail schedule", or actual fine that is given for a misdemeanor violation is set by the United States District Court. A 261.53(a) violation is currently set at $50.00 for the first offense.

Cheri Bowen
Patrol Captain- Border Zone
Law Enforcement & Investigations
Coronado National Forest

Summary

I have gone to great effort to make sure that the information regarding the closures regarding the American Peregrine Falcon are accurate. I have dealt directly with Josh Taiz and Tom Skinner and I thought that I had posted the most accurate information available on the closure orders:

http://www.climbaz.com/features/closures/closures.html

But this is not the case. The "closure order" for the Stronghold is not a closure order at all. It has not been signed by the Coronado National Forest Supervisor. I believe this is required to make the closure order a legally binding document. Tom was sending out an internal Forest Service memo and passing it off as the official closure order:

http://www.climbaz.com/features/closures/stronghold_2008.html

The net of all this is that the closure information appears to be accurate for Mt. Lemmon but it is still unclear what the closures will be for the Stronghold in 2009.

[1/18/2009] My plan is to contact the Forest Service within the next several days and see if I can get them to send me the "official" closure orders for the Stronghold in 2009. This would be the closure orders signed by the Forest Supervisor. My concern is that the "official" closure order may still include the Squaretops, the old closure dates, and the broader definition of the Rockfellow dome area. In other words, although negotiations have progressed between climbers and Forest Service biologists as far as getting more areas open in the Stronghold, the Forest Service biologists never passed the new closure orders by the Forest Service supervisor and had them made into legally binding closure orders. They simply sat as internal memos stored in personal files and not placed in the master record book.

[3/1/2009] It is still unclear what the closures are for Cochise Stronghold. I have asked Larry Jones for a copy of the closure orders, but I don't think he is going to send me anything without some prodding. Meanwhile, all the climbing community thinks that the Peregrine Falcon closures in the Stronghold begin on March 1, whereas, the closure order of record has the closures starting on February 15th. It is also unclear what areas in the stronghold are closed.

This is very frustrating. After a year and a half of trying, I still don't know what the actual closures are...

[3/28/2009] It does appear that there are two closure orders. The first one being sent out by Tom Skinner which has all the changes that were negotiated between the climbers and the Forest Service. Then there is the official closure order that is contained in the Forest Service log book. It does not have any updates since 2002 and does not contain any of the negotiated changes. Hopefully, we can get the official closure order updated with the changes in the closure order sent out by Tom Skinner.

Both closure orders are shown here:

http://www.climbaz.com/features/closures/stronghold_2008.html

[4/20/2009] There is one closure order, written in 2002, and three internal Forest service memos that have been written in 2006 or after. Based upon the three internal forest service memos, the Forest service is agreeable to relax the the restriction is the Stronghold. For some unknown reason, they are unable to update the official closure order.

Jeanine Derby, the Supervisor of the Coronado National Forest says that she will honor the agreements between the Forest service and the climbing community as stated in the internal memos. She has informed the Law Enforcement agents to enforce the law according to the internal memos. Note that in a court of law, you will be held against the official closure order.

The updated write-up on the Stonghold closures is shown here:

http://www.climbaz.com/features/closures/stronghold_2009.html